Dusk209 |
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Student
Awards:
Group: Member Posts: 11
| Hey everyone, it's that guy from the ability suggestion topic, you know, the stupid one? I just came back here to browse around and see if anything new was happening, and I stumbled across a link to this: http://cytopic.net/bouncyball/wiki/index.php?title=Nature
Look at the Nerdy/Geeky natures and you'll see that they're both pretty much "better' natures than all the rest. This seems like a pretty bad idea IMO because it leaves less room for creativity because everyone will want those 2 natures and the others will become stupid or useless. I'd like to see all of the natures have a balanced amount of upsides and downsides like +15% speed -5% attack -5% special attack -5% hp. I'd love to see lots of people playing this game competitively.
Thanks for reading and I hope all goes well with development! :3 |
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KaBob799 | |
Dual Master
Awards:
Group: Admin Posts: 1029
| This title makes me think of sending the pokemon to a pychiatrist or something to change their nature =p
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Coronation | 09/07/11 12:28 am - Last edited 09/07/11 07:57 pm by Coronation | Filter - Reply #2 |
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Guild Member
Awards: Group: Member Posts: 833
| QUOTE: Dusk209 Hey everyone, it's that guy from the ability suggestion topic, you know, the stupid one? I just came back here to browse around and see if anything new was happening, and I stumbled across a link to this: http://cytopic.net/bouncyball/wiki/index.php?title=Nature
Look at the Nerdy/Geeky natures and you'll see that they're both pretty much "better' natures than all the rest. This seems like a pretty bad idea IMO because it leaves less room for creativity because everyone will want those 2 natures and the others will become stupid or useless. I'd like to see all of the natures have a balanced amount of upsides and downsides like +15% speed -5% attack -5% special attack -5% hp. I'd love to see lots of people playing this game competitively.
Thanks for reading and I hope all goes well with development! :3
That's not necessarily true. Even though some natures are better than others, there are many different factors that play in to keep it balanced.
While you are right in saying that Geeky and Nerdy are powerful and people would pick them, they can't really 'choose' them. Rather, they have to repeatedly catch Pokemon until they have the proper nature. Because of the fact that there are 50 different natures in PT, that would give you a 2% chance per catch of getting a specified nature. Actually, it could even be lower than that - those natures could be rarer than the other ones. At this moment of writing, I've yet to encounter or see with my own eyes a Pokemon with the Nerdy nature, and I only have a few Geeky natured Pokemon in my possession, and I treasure them all.
That isn't the only factor that comes into play here. Let's say you were to get a Geeky Rotato or something, which is probably one of the best natures for it. Even with that, it could still be weaker defensively than a Nervous one (which is +5% HP, Defense, and Sp.D in exchange for -5% Attack, Sp.A, and Speed). How is this possible? IVs also play a factor in stats. They are the factor that ensure that no two Pokemon are ever the same, and this holds true - the chance of having two Pokemon with the same IVs is over one in a billion. Even if you were to get the best nature for a Pokemon, you could still be screwed over by the positioning of IVs, which leaves you at the mercy of the fickle RNG.
In addition to all of this, those aren't the only two natures to be useful. While you may have jumped in your seat at the boost those natures give and their lack of downsides, there are a few other PT-exclusive natures that provide similar boosts. For example, the Energetic nature, despite lowering HP, Attack, Defense, Sp.A, Sp.D, and Speed by 5%, manages to be useful by raising your Speed by a whopping 30%. This speed boost is a big difference, and is of around the same magnitude as those natures. A few other natures that provide niche boosts and are perfectly viable are Hyper, Withdrawn, and Elegant (but this isn't all of them). They all have their downsides, but their effects heavily outweigh the negatives, to the point where Nerdy and Geeky don't look so overpowered. Furthermore, natures aren't very unbalancing in the first place. They give off on average a 10 to 15 percent increase in a stat or two. The Geeky and Nerdy natures are very efficient in that they have no downsides (as well as Curious and Sly to a lesser extent), but natures at a whole don't do much. The primary factor in developing your Pokemon's strengths are EVs (not counting level, of course ). Compared to that, natures are a drop in the bucket.
In conclusion, I believe that the Geeky and Nerdy natures aren't overcentralizing and unbalanced. They are kept in equilibrium by the inclusion of IVs, inability to alter the nature of your Pokemon, and the various other natures in the game that also provide similar outputs of power. I see those natures as a reward for lucky/hardworking players willing to spend countless hours catching Pokemon hoping for the miniscule chance that the Pokemon they catch will be as strong as they can make it. The standard natures serve as alternatives for people who want a boost in power but don't want to spend so much time searching for the absolute best one, and will settle for whatever helps them. Either way, the difference between the two is minimal and don't give a significant advantage to those who seek those natures. What really matters is the skill of the player that commands those Pokemon.
P.S Feel free for you guys to post your opinions on this topic as well - I wanna know what others think of this.
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radiant17 | |
Guild Member
Awards:
Group: Member Posts: 978
| I think that was a very in-depth answer, Coronation. I agree with rewarding hardworking and diligent players with bonuses such as the Nerdy/Geeky natures.
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Ask me about my current game project, Creatures! |
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SpyShadow13 | |
Adventurer
Awards:
Group: Member Posts: 75
| Woah. 0.0 Maybe you should start classes for logic and reason, Coronation. As for the natures of Pokemon, I really don't see the point in arguing these things. It's not like GF or Kabob are going to change things just for one or two people. I bet that they don't even care about the battle of words going on here. So let's all
either just tuck this conversation in a box somewhere and forget about it, or we could just discuss our personal favorite natures or something like that.
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Current Avatar: A variation of a recent sprite I've made
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Bouncy Ball | |
Champion
Awards: Group: Mod Posts: 4057
| They actually do take our conversations into account I'm pretty sure... and they moderate them (leniently) too.
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SpyShadow13 | |
Group: Member
| Really? Huh, so these arguments could actually wind up as a part of PT? How interesting... Well, at the very least could we stop arguing and start discussing? |
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CD20 | |
Dualer
Awards:
Group: Member Posts: 202
| QUOTE: Coronation QUOTE: Dusk209 Hey everyone, it's that guy from the ability suggestion topic, you know, the stupid one? I just came back here to browse around and see if anything new was happening, and I stumbled across a link to this: http://cytopic.net/bouncyball/wiki/index.php?title=Nature
Look at the Nerdy/Geeky natures and you'll see that they're both pretty much "better' natures than all the rest. This seems like a pretty bad idea IMO because it leaves less room for creativity because everyone will want those 2 natures and the others will become stupid or useless. I'd like to see all of the natures have a balanced amount of upsides and downsides like +15% speed -5% attack -5% special attack -5% hp. I'd love to see lots of people playing this game competitively.
Thanks for reading and I hope all goes well with development! :3
That's not necessarily true. Even though some natures are better than others, there are many different factors that play in to keep it balanced.
While you are right in saying that Geeky and Nerdy are powerful and people would pick them, they can't really 'choose' them. Rather, they have to repeatedly catch Pokemon until they have the proper nature. Because of the fact that there are 50 different natures in PT, that would give you a 2% chance per catch of getting a specified nature. Actually, it could even be lower than that - those natures could be rarer than the other ones. At this moment of writing, I've yet to encounter or see with my own eyes a Pokemon with the Nerdy nature, and I only have a few Geeky natured Pokemon in my possession, and I treasure them all.
That isn't the only factor that comes into play here. Let's say you were to get a Geeky Rotato or something, which is probably one of the best natures for it. Even with that, it could still be weaker defensively than a Nervous one (which is +5% HP, Defense, and Sp.D in exchange for -5% Attack, Sp.A, and Speed). How is this possible? IVs also play a factor in stats. They are the factor that ensure that no two Pokemon are ever the same, and this holds true - the chance of having two Pokemon with the same IVs is over one in a billion. Even if you were to get the best nature for a Pokemon, you could still be screwed over by the positioning of IVs, which leaves you at the mercy of the fickle RNG.
In addition to all of this, those aren't the only two natures to be useful. While you may have jumped in your seat at the boost those natures give and their lack of downsides, there are a few other PT-exclusive natures that provide similar boosts. For example, the Energetic nature, despite lowering HP, Attack, Defense, Sp.A, Sp.D, and Speed by 5%, manages to be useful by raising your Speed by a whopping 30%. This speed boost is a big difference, and is of around the same magnitude as those natures. A few other natures that provide niche boosts and are perfectly viable are Hyper, Withdrawn, and Elegant (but this isn't all of them). They all have their downsides, but their effects heavily outweigh the negatives, to the point where Nerdy and Geeky don't look so overpowered. Furthermore, natures aren't very unbalancing in the first place. They give off on average a 10 to 15 percent increase in a stat or two. The Geeky and Nerdy natures are very efficient in that they have no downsides (as well as Curious and Sly to a lesser extent), but natures at a whole don't do much. The primary factor in developing your Pokemon's strengths are EVs (not counting level, of course ). Compared to that, natures are a drop in the bucket.
In conclusion, I believe that the Geeky and Nerdy natures aren't overcentralizing and unbalanced. They are kept in equilibrium by the inclusion of IVs, inability to alter the nature of your Pokemon, and the various other natures in the game that also provide similar outputs of power. I see those natures as a reward for lucky/hardworking players willing to spend countless hours catching Pokemon hoping for the miniscule chance that the Pokemon they catch will be as strong as they can make it. The standard natures serve as alternatives for people who want a boost in power but don't want to spend so much time searching for the absolute best one, and will settle for whatever helps them. Either way, the difference between the two is minimal and don't give a significant advantage to those who seek those natures. What really matters is the skill of the player that commands those Pokemon.
P.S Feel free for you guys to post your opinions on this topic as well - I wanna know what others think of this.
explains alot to me if there was pyco rep this is worth more than +1 great post
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MC: Real_CD20
Xbox: Real CD20 |
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Clicky | |
Pyco Artist
Awards:
Group: Member Posts: 656
| I think that no nature should be changed. They don't make that big of a difference anyways, it wouldn't make pokemon like Starlit and Dandaloft any stronger. It effects there stats but the computer pokemon do pretty good anyways. The moves themselves don't get stronger and natures have very limited change. It's like pokemon types, it doesn't effect the power or moves but effect how moves work together with the type of the user and foe. Nothing actually changes however.
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I collect staples. But not staplers.
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SpyShadow13 | |
Group: Member
| Of course it changes things. That extra +5% can make all the diffrence in a battle. That and the fact that natures can make a pokemon with little resilience to attacks become both powerful and have a good defence. Plus, combine that with type avantages, you can have extreme damage potential. My Epolion, for example. He has a modest nature, which will boost his special attack. He has a 300+ special attack and the ability to take out about any pokemon with a single surf. |
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Iasper | |
Dual Master
Awards: Group: Member Posts: 1099
| You are right in that, but early in the game, it won't make any notable difference at all.
Plus, do you know someone that hunts Pokémon of a specific nature and EV trains them in PT? Don't think so.
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Clicky | |
Group: Member
| It would be worthless to do that. |
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Coronation | |
Group: Member
| QUOTE: Clicky It would be worthless to do that.
Guess I've been wasting my time |
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SpyShadow13 | |
Group: Member
| Wasting your time? It could very well be worth it. Then again, normally you'd want to spend that time it would take training for the next version. |
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Coronation | |
Group: Member
| Of course it is XD I love training in PT |
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